Agresiv natural sau coleric? / Civil or choleric?

[ben]

Basically, some folk mistake a choleric dog for an aggressive dog (natural civil aggression)  and that is an interesting topic indeed; I for one see dogs with west blood (full or in part) that seem to display good natural aggression when in fact things come down to the said dog being choleric and nothing more. Choleric and self confidence are two different things.

[Man Stopper]

Basically, some folk mistake a choleric dog for an aggressive dog (natural civil aggression)  and that is an interesting topic indeed; I for one see dogs with west blood (full or in part) that seem to display good natural aggression when in fact things come down to the said dog being choleric and nothing more. Choleric and self confidence are two different things.

Would it be fair to say that a choleric dog would be more suited as a family guard dog, which 99% of the dogs end up .
But definantly as a service dog the flight behaviour is inevitable, especially when faced in a 1 on 1situation....!
I believe that the majority of dogs are choleric, but are of benefit as a personal protection dog..
I believe it will still react and do some damage, even though it is fear based..
Thanks Dani for brief translation..

[ben]

I believe it will still react and do some damage, even though it is fear based..
Eu cred ca va reactiona totusi si cauza ceva paguba, desi la baza se afla teama..

I guess from a one dog owner that is good or even preferred as a choleric dog will impress more obviously because of its reaction (loud, ugly, nasty) but from a breeding stand point I don't think that's what I for one want to produce. In a real contact situation the dog will be choleric until it gets its first reality touch, be it in a kick or whatever. Yes a choleric dog will inflict some damage but again, that's until a real threat comes along.
But then there is more to say - a choleric dog will be hard to integrate in society and since nowadays we got government bodies "watching over" owners of dogs with bite potential (and you know exactly what I mean, being in AU) I am not so sure a choleric dog is what's needed.
Istvan highlighted that a choleric dog displays fearsome attitude until the moment of contact and things change there so.. that brings me to ask, exactly what do we achieve with such a dog..? On a leash, close to the owner/handler that dog could be a true bite machine I guess; live it alone tied to a pole or something and things may change.

Banuiesc ca e de preferata sta pt detinatorul unui caine pt ca un caine coleric va impresiona rapid datorita reactiei ("urat", galagioasa, "rau") dar din punctul de vedere al unui crescator sau cel putin al meu, nu stiu daca asta vreau sa produc. Intr-un conflict real, un astfel de caine va reactiona pana in momentul in care realtatea ii lanseaza o provocare, printr-o lovitura cu piciorul, etc.. Da, un caine coleric va cauza ceva paguba dar pana in momentul aparitiei unei amenintari reale.
Si ar mai fi cate ceva de zis - un caine coleric il vei integra mai greu in societate si cum in zilele noastre sunt destui "ochi" guvernamentali care urmaresc ce se intampla cu cainii cu potential agresiv, nu stiu cat de bine gandita e treaba asta cu caini colerici iar tu intelegi f bine asta, acolo in AU.
Istvan amintea ca un caine coleric va avea reactie pana cand se ajunge la momentul de conflict real iar asta ma face sa intreb, exact ce anume promovam sau castigam prin asa ceva? Tinut in lesa, aproape de handler/proprietar, un astfel de caine e o arma intradevar, dar lasa-l singur legat undeva si lucrurile s-ar putea sa arate diferit.

[Man Stopper]

The dogs that we see, which carry on with the loud and looking nasty approach..
How do we determine which dog has the real deal mentality ?
Is it minimal hackles raised with high tail carriage, and/or the tone rythym of bark ?
Also is a choleric dog a civil dog ?

[dux]

I guess from a one dog owner that is good or even preferred as a choleric dog will impress more obviously because of its reaction (loud, ugly, nasty) but from a breeding stand point I don't think that's what I for one want to produce. In a real contact situation the dog will be choleric until it gets its first reality touch, be it in a kick or whatever. Yes a choleric dog will inflict some damage but again, that's until a real threat comes along.
But then there is more to say - a choleric dog will be hard to integrate in society and since nowadays we got government bodies "watching over" owners of dogs with bite potential (and you know exactly what I mean, being in AU) I am not so sure a choleric dog is what's needed.
Istvan highlighted that a choleric dog displays fearsome attitude until the moment of contact and things change there so.. that brings me to ask, exactly what do we achieve with such a dog..? On a leash, close to the owner/handler that dog could be a true bite machine I guess; live it alone tied to a pole or something and things may change.

Banuiesc ca e de preferata sta pt detinatorul unui caine pt ca un caine coleric va impresiona rapid datorita reactiei ("urat", galagioasa, "rau") dar din punctul de vedere al unui crescator sau cel putin al meu, nu stiu daca asta vreau sa produc. Intr-un conflict real, un astfel de caine va reactiona pana in momentul in care realtatea ii lanseaza o provocare, printr-o lovitura cu piciorul, etc.. Da, un caine coleric va cauza ceva paguba dar pana in momentul aparitiei unei amenintari reale.
Si ar mai fi cate ceva de zis - un caine coleric il vei integra mai greu in societate si cum in zilele noastre sunt destui "ochi" guvernamentali care urmaresc ce se intampla cu cainii cu potential agresiv, nu stiu cat de bine gandita e treaba asta cu caini colerici iar tu intelegi f bine asta, acolo in AU.
Istvan amintea ca un caine coleric va avea reactie pana cand se ajunge la momentul de conflict real iar asta ma face sa intreb, exact ce anume promovam sau castigam prin asa ceva? Tinut in lesa, aproape de handler/proprietar, un astfel de caine e o arma intradevar, dar lasa-l singur legat undeva si lucrurile s-ar putea sa arate diferit.

Foarte mult adevar.Rasa a inceput sa se ,,malinoizeze''.Mai ales liniile vestice.

[ben]

How do we determine which dog has the real deal mentality ?

Well this is what I would answer to that question - a dog that has plenty self confidence and will to fight (by that I mean, not "respond" to a threat because it was taught/trained to, but rather understand a real threat for what is is and take the fight to it). Other than that, I prefer a calm dog.

Pai eu cam asta as raspunde la o asemenea intrebare - un caine care are destula incredere de sine si dorinta de lupta (iar prin asta inteleg un caine care sa nu raspunda la o provocare pt ca asa a fost invatat/dresat sa faca, ci un caine care intelege o amenintare pt ceea ce este si e dornic sa duca lupta la punctul de amenintare). In rest, eu unul prefer un caine calm.

Is it minimal hackles raised with high tail carriage, and/or the tone rythym of bark ?

What do you mean with this question, can you please unpack things a little bit.
Nu cred ca inteleg intrebarea, vrei te rog sa dezvolti putin?

Also is a choleric dog a civil dog ?

I guess you could have a dog that is both civil and choleric but something tells me that, more often than not the choleric dog si not necessarily civil (for what we understand by that term, that is)

Banuiesc ca poti avea unc aine care este si agresiv natural (civil) si coleric dar ceva imi spune ca de cele mai multe ori un caine coleric nu e de fapt "civil".

[Man Stopper]

Well this is what I would answer to that question - a dog that has plenty self confidence and will to fight (by that I mean, not "respond" to a threat because it was taught/trained to, but rather understand a real threat for what is is and take the fight to it). Other than that, I prefer a calm dog.

Sure a calm dog we consider to be clear headed.. But having a owned an aggressive dog who was not calm: but at the same time would seriously take on , any 1 any time. Onyx was not conditioned to have courage,but rather genetically was very defensive and with NO hesitation would take on the challenge. I can personally see the difference between a dog that thinks (A) Hope my bark scares you OR (B) I'm going to come and bite your ass...!!

What do you mean with this question, can you please unpack things a little bit.
Nu cred ca inteleg intrebarea, vrei te rog sa dezvolti putin?

Dani if we don't visually see any negative body language .: high hair hackles or low tail cariage ect...
Would this mean that this dog is not considered to be choleric ??
The pitch of the dogs bark and the look in his eyes would determine the level of confidence the dog has, IMO..

I guess you could have a dog that is both civil and choleric but something tells me that, more often than not the choleric dog si not necessarily civil (for what we understand by that term, that is)

Banuiesc ca poti avea unc aine care este si agresiv natural (civil) si coleric dar ceva imi spune ca de cele mai multe ori un caine coleric nu e de fapt "civil".