Separation / Separarea cateilor

[Santos]

daca au mai fost scosi singuri cu stapanul pot sa nu aiba prea mari probleme, dar daca au stat numai in haita ar putea sa aiba ceva probleme cu socializarea

if they were taken out of the kennel run for walks only with the owner / breeder chanses for behavior problems are small, but if they only spent the entire time just in their pack, they may encounter socialization issues

[guest]

Restul discutiei continua aici.

[Man Stopper]

daca au mai fost scosi singuri cu stapanul pot sa nu aiba prea mari probleme, dar daca au stat numai in haita ar putea sa aiba ceva probleme cu socializarea

if they were taken out of the kennel run for walks only with the owner / breeder chanses for behavior problems are small, but if they only spent the entire time just in their pack, they may encounter socialization issues

I dont think that these dogs have been socialized and that dissapoints me.... What kind of socialization issues would one expect ?
Could it still be possible that a 5 month old pup can adapt to the hustle and bustle of a busy city for example ?

Nu cred ca acesti catei au fost socializati si asta ma dezamageste... cam la ce fel de probleme de socializare sa ma astept?
Se poate totusi ca un catel de 5 luni sa se adapteze stiului de viata de oras mare si zgomotos, de exemplu?

[zimbris]

well just to give you my opinion.. yes, I think you can still socialize the pup and get it "in line" in the end, IF we're talking about good genetics. That's just my view. it may take you some time and very good focus on details.. but I for one think that's possible.. I'll wait and see what others have to say..

parerea mea.. da, cred ca mai poti socializa catelul si sa-l aduci la linia de plutire in cele din urma, DACA vorbim de genetica buna. Eu asa cred. O sa ai nevoie de ceva timp si atentie la detalii.. dar eu unul cred ca se poate.. sa vedem si alte pareri..

[Santos]

daca cainele e bun poti sa il socializezi si la varsta asta si chiar mai tarziu numai sa aiba un temperament bun

if it's a good pup you can socialize it even at this stage or even later on, as long as it's got a good temperament

[Man Stopper]

Viewed some pups today which have not been socialised at all.
Big strong bones and very nice expressions, showed some puppy barking which was a good sign IMO.
Although the male that i have the option of taking home has a habit of going in kennel with mother, when the breeder yells at his stud dog to shut up.The  Sire puts his head down, like he has fear of owner and the pup has a similar response as his Sire showing signs of fear..
Is this young pup like this because of sensitivity to loud screaming or is this due to NO socialization...OR BOTH ?

Only 2 males in this litter and have been waiting a while for this to happen and its the last time, as Sire is 11 years old and has lines which appeals to me and are very rare.. Do you guys think i'll be taking a big gamble, in trying to correct a 14 week old pup who has only spent time with litter mates and parents.. Seems to be sensitive to loud screaming or ?
When taken out from the kennel he was more on alert then other 2 pups, (suspicious) and barked at me from 1.5 m distance, also travelled greater distance from his kennel run then other 2 pups.
Some advice would be very helpful as am in 2 minds of getting this pup,because of the behaviour which i have explained..

Am vazut astazi niste catei care nu au fost socializati deloc.
Oase mari si puternice, multa expresivitate, ceva latrat pe ici pe colo, un semn bun in opinia mea.
Desi masculul pe care intentionez sa-l iau acasa cu mine are obiceiul de a merge cu mama sa in cotet, cand stapanul triga la mascul sa taca din gura. Masculul pune capul jos, ca si cum i-ar fi teama de stapan, iar catelul are o reactie asemenatoare.
Are catelul reactia asta datorita lipsei socializarii, sau a sensibilitatii fata de zgomote puternice.. sau AMANDOUA?
Sunt numai 2 masculi in cuib si am asteptat ceva timp sa apara cuibul respectiv, fiind si ultimul din aceasta monta, masculul fiind in varsta de 11 ani si avand un sange care ma atrage dar care este si f rar... Ce credeti, risc mult, luand un catel care a petrecut tot timpul de viata cu parintii si fratiorii de cuib.. pare sa fie sensibil la zgomote mari sau..?
Cand e scos din cotet era ceva mai alert decat ceilalti masculi, (suspicios) si a latrat la mine de la o distanta de 1.5 m, de asemenea s-a indepartat de cotet pt o distanta mai mare decat ceilalti 2 catei.
As aprecia mult sfaturile voastre pt ca sunt inca nehotarat cu privire la acest mascul, datorita comportamentului pe care vi l-am descris...

[zimbris]

OK..
first of all, I don't like to hear the owner shout at the sire, presuming the sire was doing its job, barking at the 'stranger, you. Also, I would advice you follow your own experience, don't be too technical, you know what you are after.. I would personally not take a pup who gets scared by loud noises. OK, so the pup was not socialized, not taken outside far from the kennel run, but is the area one tat has loud noises.. cars passing by.. etc..? If the pup gets scared by ANY loud noise, although noises have been 'around' then yes, I would say there's a problem there. But if he simply was not taken out much at all and was not exposed to loud noises.. then I would say it's just a matter of socialization indeed. Also i would test the pup for food drive / apetite and watch her behavior when interracting with the littermates.
When reading what you said, I am tempted to wonder if the owner actually performed some 'abrupt' behavior on the pups.. if the male retreats in the kennel when the owner shouts...
I am presuming you studied the blood before going for it  [/color]

[zimbris]

Reg, keep in mind that's just my opinion.. I may be worng to say some things.. it's just my thinking in the matter. If need be, ask the owner some questions.

Ceea ce am spus e doar opinia mea, e posibil sa ma insel cu privire la unele lucruri.. e doar ceea ce cred eu in conditiile prezentate. Daca e nevoie, nu ezita sa pui intrebari crescatorului.

[Man Stopper]

Thanks Dani for the points given.. The pups are raised in quite countryside area, and the owner has been away for the last 8 weeks, the pups were taken care by family who dont seem the type to do harm.. The only thing i can see is that the Crazy Sire (Onyx's Sire) might of psycollogically scarred it, by biting.. But then again the pup approaches the Sire without hesitation, so this also has got me puzzled.. I mean as you know Dani i have tried to attain Onyx lines, and this confidence issue has me in 2 minds.. And you know  the pup is very similar to Johns male Sammy D as a pup, massive bone and head for age, should see the strength its just SUPER....!
This is the only reason why i'm leaning towards , taking a chance..
Better to try and fail, then not try at all.. The saying goes...

[zimbris]

OK.. I see..
Well you have Onyx.. your 'answer' may lie somewhere in the dam's bloodline I guess...
Based on your last comment, I would guess you're confidant this pup is what you would expect it to be.. also it sounds like it's the sharpest out of the litter (well.. so far..). Just trust your own judgment man, your standards are high enough to cause your eyes to spot out any things that would make this pup (or litter, for that matter) not good, or not close to your expectations.
And of course.. when you get the pup, be sure to present it to the guys here  :mrgreen:

You mentioned Onyx.. how's the old guy doing?

Aha.. inteleg..
Pai tu il ai pe Onyx.. 'raspunsul' tau s-ar putea sa se gaseasca undeva in sangele mamei cred..
In baza ultimelei tale postari, as crede ca intr-adevar catelul asta e ceea ce te astepti sa fie / ce cauti.. de asemenea pare sa fie si cel mai bun din cuib (cel putin deocamdata..)  Ai incredere in tine. tu ai standarde suficient de mari incat ochii tai sa poata repera elemente care sa descrie catelul (sau chiar cuibul) ca fiind nu atat de bun, sau nu aproape de steptarile tale.
Si bine-nteles.. daca si cand vei lua catelul, sa il prezinti si forumistilor aici  :mrgreen:
Apropos de Onyx.. ce mai face batranul?

[Man Stopper]

Dani what would give you the impression that it might be a sharp dog. I'm concerned that it might be a fear biter...
The Sire of pups is same Sire as Onyx.. who goes 4 times back to (Security Pekiah) 5, 5,4 Ex Reidstern.
And the Dam is same pedigree as (Yultzen Abbey) inbred of best working lines in Austrlia over 25 years.. Some insight of working bloodlines in very distant Australia....

[zimbris]

No.. I am just saying you sound like you like that pup  
I can't say much if I don't see the pup myself... I would love to give you a good opinion, but my eyes have to actually see the pup...

[RogerW]

Drago was 5 months old and had little to no socialization when I got him.   He bonded to me and my family, but has never looked upon another grown adult without at least hoping he could bite them...he considers everyone a potential threat, but not as in fear-based.
This I believe is due to his lines, I doubt he would have been much different even if he were raised differently, but I will know more when I breed him to my female.

I have never hit my dogs, but if I raise my voice in anger, they  may show some signs of being uncomfortable.  They absolutely won't when someone else raises their voice, that is just because they are a bit handler compliant.   Dogs don't want to make their owners angry, it has nothing to do with being afraid of strangers, though...IMO.   And of course bad nerves are bad nerves, you have to get that pup off that yard and give it a chance to be a puppy for a while and then see, it's the only way you will know.   Every puppy is a 50/50 gamble, it's either going to be worth the effort or not.   You have hedged your bets by liking something about the line, I would go for it, I made that decision myself and am glad for it.

[zimbris]

Every puppy is a 50/50 gamble, it's either going to be worth the effort or not.   You have hedged your bets by liking something about the line, I would go for it, I made that decision myself and am glad for it.

True, very true

[Man Stopper]

Thanks Roger for the positive comments and sharing your honest view, these tips give me something to take into consideration..