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control work
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Offline bobdog

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control work
« on: February 03, 2011, 03:22:58 AM »


A police dog I was thinking about doing ring sport with. defense of the handler like in french or mondio ring.

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 06:43:58 AM »
next time you make a video like this, get the lights on!!   :grin:   :cool:
nice dog there..
just to make an off topic comment, I wouldn't do this type of work with a real dog.. it could be risky (for the handler / owner)

Offline RogerW

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Re: control work
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 07:42:09 AM »
LOL, Kilo is as "real" as a dog can get, believe me.  It's his job to be real.  He just has a lot of control on him.

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 08:05:41 AM »
I believe you!  :rockon:  ;) (don't get me wrong, am not judging what takes place in the video)  am just saying, I would rather my dog goes for full contact as soon as someone even pretends to have a go at me. It's what reality taught me.

Offline RogerW

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Re: control work
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 09:02:32 AM »
Yes, I know what you mean.  Police work is a fine line between "real" dogs, and super control...because of lawsuits.

I dont' worry about lawsuits if someone breaks into my yard or home.

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 09:27:33 AM »
I dont' worry about lawsuits if someone breaks into my yard or home.
PRECISELY!!!!

Offline bobdog

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Re: control work
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 09:29:23 AM »
Dani, If you mean that you should not let someone you think might be a bad guy get that close to you. I would agree. But if you are saying a real dog should not be under that much control, I would have to disagree. In advanced protection training, I believe the dog must trust your judgement, both ways. What I mean by that is if something seems wrong to the dog, with his limited understanding, ( we are suppose to be the smarter member of the team) and I tell the dog no, stand down. He must trust my judgement and stay ready but under control. By the same token If the man looks non-threatening to the dog, but I say you must attack, then he again must trust my judgement and attack. The decoy did nothing to appear as a threat to the dog. he walked up, as someone might on the street to greet me. We shook hands as two people might. Now the fact that he had a bite suit on was a que to the dog but with no sign of aggression from the man and no attack command from me, the dog should continue to heel, sit and down just like I asked him to.
If a dog is unsafe in public, being too quick to make his own decisions, then the liability might outweigh just out weigh him as an asset. Then if you noticed, When I sent him, the decoy was not acting aggressive. Again the dog had to take my word for it. Although I must admit this was not
true proof of this because the bite suit was a que.

Offline bobdog

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Re: control work
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 09:43:53 AM »
True story to help make my point.
Sometime ago, I was putting the finishing touches on a personal protection dog for a client. We were in a public park in a college town. I was doing off leash obedience and what I call good guy work. Angus and I were taking in the sights and sounds of the park, in complete control and off leash. I had downed him on the side of a field as I was watching some college guys play lacrosse. when suddenly the ball comes rolling out of bounds and towards us. So one of the players comes running towards us, lacrosse stick raised over his shoulder. I knew what Angus would think. Many times mock bad guys had run at us with raised sticks. So, ready to grab his collar if necessary, I reiterated "ous" "platz". The guy ran almost all the way to us, bent down and picked up the ball and said, "hey, hows it going" and ran back on the field. I said, "good plats" "Fuss" and we went on our way.

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 09:47:24 AM »
Thank you for being so clear about what you communicate - like I was saying, both you and Roger are artists in that respect.  ;)

yes I totally agree with what you say, or else it would probably be "mayhem" all the time  lol
I guess when I say what I say, it is not from the perspective of a trainer, but of one who has gone through some experiences. i think I posted a few stories about that somewhere in the forum. What I want my 'real dog" to be like, is to be ready to charge at anything that comes quickly towards me (which Ben was kind of natively doing anyway) and yes, respond to my command (although many times that would not be a verbal one, but a swift leash pull / jerk). I nearly lost my life to a "surprise" attack and ever since i decided to allow my dog to eat anything that comes close to me faster that the average walking speed. I am of course taking some risks in that but hey, "they" don't really have rules out there, if you know what I mean.

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 09:51:51 AM »
oo.. I like that! True stories!  redjump
Guy wants to show me a shotokan kick to the thigh, Ben watched from a  few meters away; guy kicks me in the thigh; guy ends up at the doctor (Ben was too quick and I had no time to "catch" him.

Another one that is more related to my previous post - I was out shopping for some soda, a friend approaches and salutes me by shouting from about 7 meters away (walking towards me to shake my hand - Romanian custom I guess) and also raised an empty plastic bottle in the air - Ben (on leash) reacted so nasty a bunch of people gathered within moments thinking someone was about to be slained  :laugh:  they asked me to walk away from there   :grin:  I did not tell Ben off afterwards, as he did exactly what I expected him to do.

True stories - don't get me started  :grin:

Offline bobdog

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Re: control work
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 10:12:38 AM »
Quote
What I want my 'real dog" to be like, is to be ready to charge at anything that comes quickly towards me (which Ben was kind of natively doing anyway) and yes, respond to my command (although many times that would not be a verbal one, but a swift leash pull / jerk). I nearly lost my life to a "surprise" attack and ever since i decided to allow my dog to eat anything that comes close to me faster that the average walking speed. I am of course taking some risks in that but hey, "they" don't really have rules out there, if you know what I mean.

Ones training should produce a dog the way that trainer/handler wants a dog to perform. The important thing is knowing how to safely work that dog. No matter how we train the dog, as his handler, we must be his handler every moment the dog is out with us.


zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 10:17:27 AM »
true!

Offline bobdog

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Re: control work
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 10:17:44 AM »
Guy wants to show me a shotokan kick to the thigh, Ben watched from a  few meters away; guy kicks me in the thigh; guy ends up at the doctor (Ben was too quick and I had no time to "catch" him.

Another one that is more related to my previous post - I was out shopping for some soda, a friend approaches and salutes me by shouting from about 7 meters away (walking towards me to shake my hand - Romanian custom I guess) and also raised an empty plastic bottle in the air - Ben (on leash) reacted so nasty a bunch of people gathered within moments thinking someone was about to be slained    they asked me to walk away from there     I did not tell Ben off afterwards, as he did exactly what I expected him to do.


 :lol: Funny story, and I agree with not fussing at the dog. Based on what you expect from your dogs, I probably would have given him a little pad on the side as we walked off. ;)

zimbris

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Re: control work
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 10:25:38 AM »
Bob, just to make it easy for others to "separate" the posts, just highlight / select the part that is quoted and click on the I (italicized) icon  (cones after the B one)

Offline kangdanlin

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Re: control work
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 10:36:42 AM »
how old is that dog?..how much training?
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.
Winston Churchill