Real training vs sport training / Sport vs Real

[Leo Pui]

Thanks Santos, to me ... both the dog and it handler much have good bond in between.  
The stronger the bond is, the better team, them they can be!

Meanwhile on dog's training view, the said dog and it handler much gone through the different phrases of workout ... by doing this, the dog learn that he can trust and rely on it handler and in return, he would do his best to please or to protect his owner/ handler!

Look at those war dogs ... they army dont have much times to select and to train them but many of them still make it and with good names after so many years!  This actually stronger my believe that, the better the bond is in between ... the dog would definite works better and to meet the expectation to it handler.  Like Max said:  A dog is as good as it owner (handler)"!  

Sharing with you a video when I learn about doing Personal Protection dog with FAX years back, in about 03 sessions, FAX learn fast and act accordingly ... my staffs enjoying hitting me hard on that workout!  

Cu cat mai puternica legatura om-caine, cu atat mai puternica echipa!
cat despre antrenamentul cainelui, cel in discutie si handlerul sau au trecut prin diferite etape de antrenament.. in felul acesta, cainele a invatat ca poate avea incredere in handler iar in schimb, va face tot posibilul sa isi apere / multumeasca handlerul!

Uitati-va la acei caini de razboi.. armata nu avea asa mult timp sa-i selecteze si sa-i dreseze si totusi multi caini au fost buni si cu reputatie de-alungul anilor! asta imi intareste si mai mult credinta ca, cu cat mai buna legatura etc... cainele va lucra cu atat mai bine si va intampina asteptarile handlerului. Cum spunea si Max: "Un caine e la fel de bun cat e handlerul / proprietarul"!

Sa va arat un clip, din vremea cand am invatat mai multe despre lucrul de protectie personala cu cainele Fax, acum cativa ani, in aprox 3 sedinte de lucru, Fax a invatat sa lucreze corespunzator.. angajatii mei se bucurau ca sunt "nevoiti" sa ma loveasca 

[zimbris]

Thanks Santos, to me ... both the dog and it handler much have good bond in between.  
The stronger the bond is, the better team, them they can be!

definitely!!!   categoric!

Sharing with you a video when I learn about doing Personal Protection dog with FAX years back, in about 03 sessions, FAX learn fast and act accordingly ... my staffs enjoying hitting me hard on that workout! 

I know for sure Dux will want to share some thought on multiple attack training.. in fact Santos, too..

Stiu sigur ca Dux va avea ceva de spus despre antrenemantele cu atacuri multiple.. de fapt si Santos, cred..

[Leo Pui]

I know for sure Dux will want to share some thought on multiple attack training.. in fact Santos, too..

Stiu sigur ca Dux va avea ceva de spus despre antrenemantele cu atacuri multiple.. de fapt si Santos, cred..

I better do a quick one and make my view understand by other 

When we do PP work, it is more for individual civilian!  We are using this training to get ourselves out from confrontation (buying time) to "run" away from the issue.  We are not doing PP to show others that our dog can do this and get macho thinking! 

On the other way, we use this for crowd control work ... at least we still have backup from other team-mate! 

Now ... I am waiting for someone to shoot 

[zimbris]

I better do a quick one and make my view understand by other 

Now ... I am waiting for someone to shoot 

 

leo, don't worry, if anyone shoots, that is with opinions, not more, and your own opinion is just as important as others.. 

I know Dux says often that, he would spoil a dog's bite when training for multiple decoy attacks, because the dog knows he has to let go of one decoy and go for another, so in this way the grip loses strength. But I would rather let him say things in his own words

[zimbris]

Leo, I totally agree with you that strong bond leads to strong communication, ending in good work / results. In fact, I believe that is another aspect to look into, nowadays many breed and train in a "farm" method, they have a number of dogs and so the work is being done in a more mechanical manner. Some of the best dogs I have seen, did not undergo that much training but they loved their owner A LOT (and the other way around)

Leo, sunt total de acord cu tine ca o legatura puternica intre caine si handler / proprietar duce la comunicare buna si respectiv lucru bun / rezultate bune. De fapt, cred ca asta e un alt aspect care poate fi abordat mai in profunzime, in zileel noastre sunt multi care cresc si dreseaza caini intr-o maniera mai mecanica, pt ca au multi caini. unii din cei mai buni caini pe care i-am vazut, nu parcursesera cine stie ce dresaj dar erau FOARTE atasati de stapani (si invers, bine-nteles)

[Man Stopper]

Your right guys there must be a bond and this makes commands and work all the more effective.
In regards to multiple decoy attacks, true there would be slight loss of grip, but in reality enough to do some
I think this would be the way to go in training a young dog, better focus on Man.

Aveti dreptate trebuie sa existe o legatura puternica iar asta va face munca si comenzile cu atat mai eficiente.
In ce priviste atacurile cu mai multi atentatori, intr-adevar ar aparea prize mai slabe, dar in realitate suficient de puternice sa produca rani serioase
cred ca asta e calea buna in a pregati un caine tanar, focusarea pe OM.

[Leo Pui]

leo, don't worry, if anyone shoots, that is with opinions, not more, and your own opinion is just as important as others..  

I know Dux says often that, he would spoil a dog's bite when training for multiple decoy attacks, because the dog knows he has to let go of one decoy and go for another, so in this way the grip loses strength.

But I would rather let him say things in his own words

The bite not that strong when doing multiple bite-work?  I'd hear some one make that command too (long time ago) but who is dare to work the dogs "nakedly" without any protection gears?  

Small / semi bite ... not that hurt but still hurt and cost bleeding!
Big bite ... yes, it hurt!
Firm grip bite ... definitely hurt!
The bottom line is ... they are to take down the bad-guys for their handler  

Do you think all the bad guys were decoy on these?  

Here is another one on recall ... works on two decoys!

Stiu ca Dux a mai spus ca prin folosirea mai multor atentatori ar slabi priza, pt ca animalul stie ca trebuie sa lase la un momentdat un atentator si sa se duca pe altul, prin urmare forta muscaturii nu mai e aceeasi. priza nu e la fel de puternica atunci cand folosim mai multi atentatori? Am mai auzit pe cineva facand aceasta afirmatie (nu demult) dar cine are curaj sa se bage atentator, fara echipament de protectie? 

Priza usoara, medie... nu va cauza f multa paguba, dar ceva sange tot va curge!
Priza puternica - da, o sa doara!
Concluzia este... ei trebuie sa rapuna infractorul, pt handler 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=9x8ugV4HqAo[/youtube]

Hey, I am looking for a fight but merely just to express my point of view    

[Leo Pui]

Leo, I totally agree with you that strong bond leads to strong communication, ending in good work / results. In fact, I believe that is another aspect to look into, nowadays many breed and train in a "farm" method, they have a number of dogs and so the work is being done in a more mechanical manner. Some of the best dogs I have seen, did not undergo that much training but they loved their owner A LOT (and the other way around)

I agreed with the above statement!  Every trainer claim to be the best in their own way of training and I did that 2 (long times ago) until I learns something else that so-called is from the lost art of working service training ... until today, I remain open-minded in training although I may get hard-headed at times that I will still stay with the lost art 

Well, the bottom line is ... let the dog's performance speak!   

[Santos]

sa traduca cineva ca sa am ce sa comentez

[kangdanlin]

The bite not that strong when doing multiple bite-work?  I'd hear some one make that command too (long time ago) but who is dare to work the dogs "nakedly" without any protection gears?  
Small / semi bite ... not that hurt but still hurt and cost bleeding!
Big bite ... yes, it hurt!
Firm grip bite ... definitely hurt!
The bottom line is ... they are to take down the bad-guys for their handler  
Do you think all the bad guys were decoy on these?  
Here is another one on recall ... works on two decoys!
Hey, I am looking for a fight but merely just to express my point of view    

muscatura nu e asa puternica in cazul atacatorilor multipli? Am auzit lucrul asta si de la altcineva(cu ceva timp in urma) dar cine indrazneste sa lucreze "gol" fara echipament de protectie?
Mica/semi muscatura..nu doare asa tare dar totusi se simte , si poate provoca sangerare!
muscatura mare....clar doare!
Concluzia..ei ar trebui sa-i doboare pe baietii rau pentru conductorul lor;)
Credeti ca toti "baietii rai" din clip erau "ajutoare"?
hey, nu caut contraziceri, ci doar imi exprim punctul de vedere  

[kangdanlin]

I agreed with the above statement!  Every trainer claim to be the best in their own way of training and I did that 2 (long times ago) until I learns something else that so-called is from the lost art of working service training ... until today, I remain open-minded in training although I may get hard-headed at times that I will still stay with the lost art 

Well, the bottom line is ... let the dog's performance speak!   

de acord cu declaratia de mai sus!orice dresor pretinde ca el este cel mai bun in metoda lui de dresaj si eu eram la fel (mult timp in urma)pana cand am invatat altceva, din asa numita "arta pierduta" a dresajului cainilor de serviciu...pana azi, raman cu mintea deschisa desi pot si eu sa ma incapatanez uneori si sa raman cu vechea arta 
in final..cel mai bine cred ca ar trebui sa lasam performanta cainilor sa vorbeasca pentru noi ! 

[kangdanlin]

I better do a quick one and make my view understand by other 
When we do PP work, it is more for individual civilian!  We are using this training to get ourselves out from confrontation (buying time) to "run" away from the issue.  We are not doing PP to show others that our dog can do this and get macho thinking!
On the other way, we use this for crowd control work ... at least we still have backup from other team-mate! 
Now ... I am waiting for someone to shoot 

  as face bine daca as reusi sa ma fac inteles mai bine de catre ceilalti
cand facem dresaj de protectie, este mai degraba "individual civil"(probabil vrea sa spuna personal)!folosim genul asta de dresaj pentru a nu fi nevoie sa ne implicam noi in confruntare(tragem de timp) pentru a fugi de problema.Nu facem dresajul de protectie ca sa ne simtim mai barbati, si sa ne laudam cu ce poate sa faca cainele!
pe partea cealalta folosim dresajul pentru munca de control al multimilor..sau macar avem intariri din partea coechipierului!

acum ..astept sa traga careva

[kangdanlin]

leo, don't worry, if anyone shoots, that is with opinions, not more, and your own opinion is just as important as others.. 

I know Dux says often that, he would spoil a dog's bite when training for multiple decoy attacks, because the dog knows he has to let go of one decoy and go for another, so in this way the grip loses strength. But I would rather let him say things in his own words

leo, nu-ti fa griji, daca cineva trage, o face prin exprimarea opiniei, nimic mai mult, iar parerea ta e la fel de importanta ca a oricui ..
Stiu ca Dux spune adesea asta, ca daca lucreaza cu prea multi atacatori mai degraba strica muscatura, fiindca acesta invata ca trebuie sa dea drumul unuia ca sa-l prinda pe altul, si in felul asta muscatura isi pierde puterea.dar prefer sa-l las pe el sa spuna cu cuvintele lui.

[RogerW]

Leo, I respect your training because you are actually training for a job that you know well.   You are ensuring the safety of civilians, and you are doing it so you ensure your business survives, and your handlers and staff survive.   That's work, and you have working dogs, which is the essence of what I like.  No matter which road a real working dog owner chooses, at least they are putting themselves on that road, and I pay attention when they speak of their work.

I agreed with the above statement!  Every trainer claim to be the best in their own way of training and I did that 2 (long times ago) until I learns something else that so-called is from the lost art of working service training ... until today, I remain open-minded in training although I may get hard-headed at times that I will still stay with the lost art 

Well, the bottom line is ... let the dog's performance speak!   

[zimbris]

yeah.. it's probably wise to make a point that one may train their dog for real work BUT with different purposes in mind, so we don't have to draw a line and say "there is only one way", or anything of that sort..

da.. este bine sa subliniem ca ne putem dresa cainii pt munca reala dar cu scopuri diferite in minte, deci nu putem generaliza si spune ca exista o singura cale spre lucrul "real"