Real training vs sport training / Sport vs Real

[zimbris]

la 3 luni jumate... n-as prea crede...
si eu am dus-o pe Axa la 4 luni la infractor pe care nu l-a vazut niciodata, de fapt nu mai facusem nici un ex. de agitatie pana atunci si, ai vazut clipul 9cel cu Axa la 4 luni) ai vazut ce reactie a avut. parerea mea e ca la varsta asta nu ai cum sa vezi in actiune inst de paza la catei.. e doar parerea mea..

at 3,5 mo old... i wouldn't say so..
i also had Axa agitated for the very first time in her life by someone she has never seen before and you all saw her reaction on that video of her at 4 mo old. In my view, you can't really see the defense in action at this age.. it's just my opinion..

[Santos]

poate sa spuna si ceilalti parerea ca nu se supara nimeni mai mult as vrea parerea dresorilor

[zimbris]

mai mult as vrea parerea dresorilor

oo.. gata boss, am tacut 

[bobo70]

Imi dau si eu cu parerea,.... asa ca nespecialist.
Imi place reactia lor la zgomt, la pocniturile de bici nu se intimideaza deloc, ba chiar se focalizeaza si mai tare pe infractor.
Insa miscarea cozii, in cazul ambilor, imi spune ca mai degraba au chef de harjoneala. Cred ca este o combinatie de instincte pe care nici ei nu o au definita inca. Asa vad eu din afara....  
Sunt curios care este parerea lui Santos....
Ne-ai prezentat clipul si nu ti-ai dat cu parerea despre reactii.

I will mention my opinion.. as a non nonprofessional.
I like their response to the noise, they don't get intimidated at all by the whip strikes, they actually focus better on the agitator.
Judging by their tail movement, i would say they would rather want to play rough. I guess we're talking about a combination of instincts that i for one can't name. that's how i see it from where I am....
You showed us the clip but you haven't commented yet yourself 

[Santos]

poate sa comenteze orcine ca nu se supara nimeni  dar dresorii pot sa vada mai bine
din instinct de paza latra si Greif  al lui Kandalin la 2 luni

anyone can comment, nobody will be offended, but trainers may make a better point. kangdanlin's Greif was barking out of defense at 2 months old

[Santos]

hai Leo comenteaza

[Leo Pui]

hai Leo comenteaza

Thank You for the honor, I will do so when some one post the above replies in English  so that I dont make any mistake via google online translate 

[zimbris]

am vizionat clipul de cateva ori; este acolo un moment unde masculul bate in retragere, deci percepe potentiala 'amenintare" si da, sa spunem ca raspunde din aparare; dar femelutza e pusa pe joaca cat cuprinde.
parerea mea de nespecialist.

[kangdanlin]

asta vroiam sa spun si eu, ca greif al meu dadea din codita in clipul ala la 2 luni...spunea cineva ca de fapt cainele acolo arata nesiguranta  ))...
eu zic ca faptul ca dadea din coada arata ca nu ii era frica...nu cred ca este obligatoriu sa aiba coada teapana , ca sa putem spune ca este in aparare...eu unul apreciez atitudinea , expresia fetei cainelui

ultima data cand am fost la iasi sa-l duc am inteles exact cam cum arata un caine in aparare

[Leo Pui]

daca analizam clipul ,dupa ce ne dam seama daca catelul latra din instinct de prada sau din instinct de aparare
if we watch the video closely, how can we tell if the pup barks out of prey pr defense

To me, those pups especially the one that further from the car is "asking" to be release to play as he being trigged by the movement!

cum vad eu, cateii astia mai ales cel mai indepartat de masina "cer' sa fie eliberati sa se joace fiind atrasi de miscare!

urmareste bine clipul.  chiar latra din instinct de paza si el si femela, puii nu il cunosc pe agitator
watch the clip closely.  both the male and the female bark out of defense, the agitator is a stranger to the pups

I do not agreed that at this age that he is barking for or to defend (referring to the one that further from the car)!  The main reason I said so ... it is because, the said pup has not being work, he doesnt know how to re-act in proper defense yet even though he may has good defend instinct!  Therefore, my point of view from watching this video ... I say, it is not on prey, not on defend but play!

Nu sunt de acord ca la varsta asta latra din aparare (ma refer la cel mai indepartat de masina). principalul motiv fiind, cum ziceam.. catelul nu a fost "lucrat", nu stie cum sa re-actioneze  din propria aparare, chiar daca de fapt are inst bun de paza. De aceea, opinia mea, judecand dupa acest clip... as spune ca nu e in prada nici in aparare, ci doar joaca!

poate sa comenteze orcine ca nu se supara nimeni  dar dresorii pot sa vada mai bine din instinct de paza latra si Greif  al lui Kandalin la 2 luni
anyone can comment, nobody will be offended, but trainers may make a better point. kangdanlin's Greif was barking out of defense at 2 months old

Yes, I saw kangdanlin's the 02 months old young pup's video ... to me, this pup has strong territoriality guarding instinct.  In the video, it also show ... when he was confronted, the pup back-off a bit and re-charge soon the "bad-guy" back-off!

da, am vazut clipul cu greif junior la 2 luni.. din p meu de vedere catelul are instinct teritorial f puternic. Tot in video, se vede.. cand e confruntat, catelul se retrage usor si re-ataca iar 'infractorul" se indeparteaza

[Santos]

a vazut bine Zimbris ca spre sfarsitul clipului facand mai multa presiune pe catel a inceput sa bata in retragere dar daca agitatorul sa indepartat sa dus iar spre el; am sa mai fac 2  clipuri unul cu puii care latra dupa prada si unul cu catei care se joaca
femela este mai dura decat masculul dar este mai tacuta. Este una dintre femelele din clipul  "temperament pui" . Urmareste in clip numai femela

Zimbris noted well that towards the end of the clip, as more pressure was made the pup stepped back a bit and re-charged as the agitator ran away; I will make 2 more clips, one with pups who bark in prey and one with pups at play
the female pup is tougher but also more quiet than the male pup. she was featured in the "temperament pui" video. watch the female closely in the clip.

[zimbris]

tin minte, cand am fost la tine si i-am vazut pe Tek (apropos, sa ni-l mai arati!) si sora lui proaspat veniti de la Roman.. atunci da, catelusa aia latra in inst de aparare sau chiar in lupta as indrazni sa spun, atunci cand ingrijitorul s-a facut spre ea. Parul zburlit pe spate, latrat gros, privire f serioasa, in nici un caz vb de joaca

I remember, when i came to Iasi and I saw Tek (by the way, post some new pictures of him) and his sister as they just returned from Roman... back then yes, that female pup was definitely barking in defense and I would even dare to say, in fight. Upright hair on the back, low pitch bark, serious look in the eyes, far from play mood altogether

[Santos]

femela care este sora Tek este ultima din partea stanga in clipul cu agitatia
masculul  din clipul acesta este cel mai bun pui scos de mine pana acum si il voi opri pentru reproductie  si se numeste Watt

the female sister to Tek is the one far left in the agitation clip
the male is the best pup i produced this far and will keep him for future breeding

[zimbris]

clipul cu agitatia - care, asta de mai sus, sau vorbim de clipuri diferite..?   
dupa calculele mele, Tek si sora lui sunt deja namile...

[Man Stopper]

If anything one of the pups is frustrated and this IMO is caused by being provoked. Whilst the other pup doing 360 ' turns is not so intimidated and sees more of a game.
If a stranger walks towards puppy without provoking and pups shows defensive reaction than this would be more of an indication of insecurity/suspicion, which can be worked on to build confidence as an adult.
The rythm and depth of bark in defense is differant to what is being showed in this clip.
High cocky tail set and deep bark with minimal raising of hackles is what i would like to see..