Real training vs sport training / Sport vs Real

[Man Stopper]

Quite a lot of modern dogs are "reserved" and that's because of fear, not suspicion towards strangers. But that's my opinion, I could be dead wrong.. what's your own say on this?

I believe that a balanced dog would be that who scores either 5 or 6..
But those who would be categorised as having a score of '4' would be virtually non existant..
Boban for example what would be his temperament ?? Considering he was not a dog that could be not be observed and/or judged..
I would say that '3' and '4' are similar.. With '4' being stronger with NO flight or conflict in his mind..
Maybe the Government Law sectors those days got there hands on those who had the sharp and dangerous approach.. And the dogs we know of were stable and balanced with conformation ofcourse..

[ben]

I believe that a balanced dog would be that who scores either 5 or 6..
But those who would be categorised as having a score of '4' would be virtually non existant..
Boban for example what would be his temperament ?? Considering he was not a dog that could be not be observed and/or judged..
I would say that '3' and '4' are similar.. With '4' being stronger with NO flight or conflict in his mind..
Maybe the Government Law sectors those days got there hands on those who had the sharp and dangerous approach.. And the dogs we know of were stable and balanced with conformation ofcourse..

Hmm.. I need to take some time and read this through again, I like the topic but I somehow don't manage to grasp all the info.. Love the topic, it's an important one, given that nowadays wanting a tough dog is not easy.

[Man Stopper]

Dani i am using the DDR Rating System for dogs, which is on Johns East German Shepherds site..
In the Wertmessziffer "measured valued number".. The 4th column on this chart gives a score on the dogs temperament..
I would say the dog that scores '4' would be that dog that most could not handle , and not very desirable for your average 'Joe"... Interesting to take note to which dogs that we know on the Data Base  have this score of '4'..

[ben]

I would say the dog that scores '4' would be that dog that most could not handle , and not very desirable for your average 'Joe"...

Well put! While we seek tough, civil dogs, the average person just wants a dog who can make some noise when there's someone at the gate etc.

Interesting to take note to which dogs that we know on the Data Base  have this score of '4'..

Do you mean the old dogs..? Hmm, true, now you got me going...

[Man Stopper]

Do you mean the old dogs..? Hmm, true, now you got me going...

Dani i had looked at pics over and over again, over the few years.. So for a change, i thought i'd look into this
rating system - Wertmessziffer. They should be more clear with there definitions in regards to temperament..!
But they were clear that this system, was to take note of extra sharp dog especially.. Its in da blood...!

[ben]

But they were clear that this system, was to take note of extra sharp dog especially.. Its in da blood...!

I guess that tells you the east Germans were indeed after good dogs and hey, no wonder they promoted Zorro LW big time although the dog did not score high in the East Sieger. Like i said I'll take a close look at the rating system, you got me curious.

[Man Stopper]

I guess that tells you the east Germans were indeed after good dogs and hey, no wonder they promoted Zorro LW big time although the dog did not score high in the East Sieger.

Imagine those that did not make it to the arena..
Those that were possibly too sharp for the shows, they would of been living in some isolated country town perhaps..

[ben]

Imagine those that did not make it to the arena..
Those that were possibly too sharp for the shows, they would of been living in some isolated country town perhaps..

Those ones would have definitely made it to my arena!!

[Man Stopper]

Those ones would have definitely made it to my arena!!

Here here !!!

[ben]

Here here !!!

[ben]

I was watching the video below... this stuff should be called "prey work", not "protection work". In my view, it would go the same for "protection" section in many world class level competitions. The dog just wants the tou, not to fight the (potential) aggressor. And the video is a perfect example you could do the so-called "protrection" with just about ANY GSD, regardless of their actual potential.
(this is a DDR pup)

[AXX Police Tracker]

prey drive 100% here..no interest in guard instinct at all.    the pup is watching only to get his "prey", his reward.  You could do that with a pointer or with a lab, also...      to bad

[ben]

prey drive 100% here..no interest in guard instinct at all.    the pup is watching only to get his "prey", his reward.  You could do that with a pointer or with a lab, also...      to bad

Well, considering this is a DDR pup as well and, according to what many say about this type of GS dog, they mature slower than the average dog, so to start protection work so early in life is a bad ideea..

[Man Stopper]

In training we talk about drives whether its prey or defense, and like to condition the dog to its full potential..
But another type of drive which is inborn also, and very hard to condition, is 'Pack Drive'.. !
Dogs with LOW pack drive i believe have more courage in working as they are independant and not your dog that likes to be petted and cuddled by the owner..  Dogs with LOW PACK DRIVE are more for real IMO, they take control of the job...

Cand vorbim de dresaj mentionam driv-ul, prada sau aparare si ne place sa antrenam cainele la potential maxim..
Dar mai este un instinct nativ de mentionat si greu de antrenat/conditionat, cel de haita.
Cred ca un caine cu instinct de haita mai slab dezvoltat este mai curajos pt ca este mai independent si nu genul de caine caruia ii place sa fie mangaiat si alintat de stapan.. In opinia mea cainii cu instinct de haita scazut sunt mai buni pt lucrul de real, pt ca iau controlul situatiei..

[ben]

Dogs with LOW pack drive i believe have more courage in working as they are independant and not your dog that likes to be petted and cuddled by the owner..  Dogs with LOW PACK DRIVE are more for real IMO, they take control of the job...

I believe that too and let me tell you why that is; Ben and other dogs I've known to be real warriors were not that keen on fighting other dogs or establish the chief position when with other dogs. I don't believe that a good "real" GS dog HAS to be high on pack drive to be also a great man-stopper;  I know many dogs that are great fighters among other dogs but run to the woods when facing a real (human) danger.

Si eu cred asta si-ti spun de ce; Ben si alti caini pe care i-am stiut, caini foarte buni in paza sau in general lucrul pe om, nu erau atat de atrasi de stabilirea ierarhiei intre alti caini, de fapt chiar pasivi. Pe de alta parte stiu multi caini care "sparg" in stanga si dreapta intre caini dar cand e vorba de paza sunt slabi.