Hard dog or hard handler? (Caine dur sau handler dur?)

[RogerW]

I want a bond with my dog, I don't think you get a good one hitting your own dog, IMO.  I will test a dog hard...only when I believe it should be ready for it and not before, but that's someone else that gets rough, the dog has to trust me if it's us against the enemy.   If that guy was to accidentally fall down a few steps while holding his dog in a high stress situation and the dog was not a super stable and clear dog, will he be clear enough not to bite his own handler?   I ask that, because I've seen the same type handler (police K9 officer) roll up to a practice scenario with siren blaring ...dog knows it's showtime and stressed...and the officer stumbled and fell as he was jumping out of his car.  The dog latched on to him.  lol

Vreau sa am o legatura cu cainele meu si nu cred ca obtii asa ceva lovindu-ti propriul caine. Da, voi testa un caine intr-un mod mai dur.. numai cand consider ca e gata pt asa ceva si nu inainte, dar e vb de o alta persoana care va fi dura, cainele trebuie sa aiba incredere in mine, daca e vb de tu si inamicul fata in fata. Daca dresorul respectiv ar cadea pe niste trepte accidental mentinand cainele intr-un nivel de stres ridicat iar cainele nu ar fi unul super echilibrat, va avea el mintea suficient de clara incat sa nu-si muste stapanul? Intreb asta pt ca am mai vazut un asemenea dresor (ofiter de patrula canina) folosind la antrenamente sirene (sau cum le spunem noi, de fac galagie mare) .. cainele stie ca a sosit momentul "spectacolului" si e stresat.. iar dresorul s-a impiedicat in timp ce iesea din masina. Iar cainele a "actionat" (l-a muscat)

[zimbris]

I like your comment!! I don't agree with what it's happening in that video. I have been in tough circumstances myself, for a number of years, and I don't mean just dogs wise. All that hitting was not good for anything. I can apply tough corrections to my tough dog, but by no means would I hit the dog!!
There is that video of Lord Gleisdreieck at work and you can see the handler applying some (somewhat) hard coreections in places, but he does not hit the dog.
To be completely honest, I would think one would do that to prove to himself or those around, that he can handle a tough dog, it's more to do with pride, than actually pointing out the dog's qualities.

Imi place p tau de vedere! Nici eu nu sunt de acord cu ceea ce se intampla in clipul respectiv. Am fost si eu in situatii dure, pt o perioada maricica si nu ma refer strict la situatii cu caini. Toate bataia aia din clip e inutila. Da, voi aplica corectii dure unui caine dur, dar nu il voi lovi!
Este acel clip cu Lord Gleisdreieck  la lucru, unde se pot remarca ceva corectii mai dure pe ici pe colo, dar cainele nu este lovit.
Sa fiu sincer pana la capat, tind sa cred ca cineca ar face astfel de lucru cu cainele pt a-si dovedi lui sau celor din jur ca poate sa se ocupe de un caine mai dur. Iar asta are legatura mai mult cu orgoliul decat cu subliniera calitatilor cainelui.

[Man Stopper]

When we talk about duty/patrol dogs, do they work for there human partner or for there own desire to work/fight ?
Would a hard dog need to have a close bond with Man, in order to perform ?

Cand e vb de caini de patrula / serviciu, ei isi fac treaba din ascultare de handler (politist in cazul asta) sau din pura placere pt lucru/lupta?
Un caine mai dur ar avea nevoie de o legatura mai stransa cu omul, pt a lucra eficient?

the dog has to trust me if it's us against the enemy

[zimbris]

That's a fine question Reg..
I would personally say it's a mix of both, depending on the dog's personality.. I would dare to say a dog that actually HAS a personality, not just obey orders like a robot, would also do the work out of a natural desire to be in action.. that's just my opinion... I find it that dogs with loads of prey drive would do things to satisfy the handler, knowing the reward will come from the handler (of course that is also to do with the training system applied on that specific dog). Whilst a dig with good defense / fight drive will gladly take the fight to the agitator, regardless of rewards.. actually I might add the reward for such a dog is the contact itself (with the agitator)

Buna intrebare Reg..
Personal as spune ca e vorba de ambele, depinde de personalitatea cainelui.. ba chiar as indrazni sa spun ca un caine care ARE personalitate, nu doar care executa ordine ca un robot, ar face treaba din dorinta proprie de a fi in actiune.. e opinia mea.. am impresia ca exemplarele cu mult inst de prada lucreaza din dorinta de a satisface handlerul si la final sa obtina recompensa - tot de la handler (desigur asta si functie de tipul de dresaj aplicat) In timp ce un caine cu inst bun de aparare / lupta va duce lupta cu placere la agitator, indiferent de recompensa.. de fapt as spune ca 'recompensa' este contactul in sine.

[Man Stopper]

Does the term sensitive refer to only a dogs temperament with the handler; and/or also the working ability with helper  ?

Prin termenul "sensibil" se face referire doar la temperamentul cainelui fatza de handler; si/ sau de asemenea abilitatea de a lucra cu atentatorul?

[zimbris]

hai sa vedem ce raspunde un dresor

let's see what a trainer has to say about that

[tessa]

Pentru a testa un caine in privinta caracterului trebuie sa punem cainele in diverse situatii dar trebuie sa tinem cont de faptul ca un caine va reactiona intotdeauna diferit cand este pus in situatii diferite.Pe aceasta tema se poate discuta ore in sir (dar timpul nu-mi permite) deoarece am avut foarte multi caini prin maini(diverse rase) si le-am studiat comportamentul in diferite medii, cu diferiti factori care influientau comportamentul cainilor.

To test a dog about his character we must put him into different situations but we must remember that a dog will always react different when he is put in different situations. This subject can be discussed for hours (but time doesn't allow me) because I had many dogs through my hands (different breeds) and I studied they're behavior in different environment, with different factors that influenced dog's behavior.

[Man Stopper]

I imagine that the Border Patrol dogs, would of only had to be conditioned in there environment (forest)..
Compared to cop dogs who have totally differant situations to deal with in the busy noise pollution city, in most cases..
A naturally real tough dog from my experience would perform, even if tied on a post 500 mtrs from there owner, hard and civil in body language and deep bark...!

Imi imaginez ca, cainii din Politia de Frontiera ar fi fost conditionati doar in acel mediu (padure)...
Comparati cu cainii politisti care au de-a face cu situatii total diferite, in aglomeratia orasului, de obicei...
Un caine cu adevarat dur, din experienta mea, ar efectua, chiar si legat la 500 m de stapan, un limbaj al corpului dur si un latrat profund...!

[Sorin]

Traduceti si voi  discutiile astea, este un topic foarte interesant.!

[guest]

Pai nu sunt traduse in mare parte?

[Sorin]

La ultimul ma refer

[guest]

S-a tradus si ultimul post. 
Nu suntem (eu si Dani) intotdeauna pe faza, dar incercam sa traducem cat de repede putem.

[Sorin]

 

[zimbris]

Traduceti si voi  discutiile astea, este un topic foarte interesant.!

pune-te pe invatat engleza!

[Sorin]

pune-te pe invatat engleza!

Pai o stiu ,dar poate sunt din forum care nu o inteleg in totalitate.