Caini RDG (DDR dogs)

[guest]

Pascha aus der Bärenhöhle

[ben]

Imi place mult in poza alb negru.

[ben]

I see Sven G's sire was used quite a bit. Makes me wonder what they saw in him..

[Man Stopper]

I see the 4th digit had a score of '3', this is like Ex Riedstern something not so common when reading scores, and also they mention that he has the Fred Falkenbruch type look.
Yet Fred was straight and longer looking compared to Irko who looked compact and angulated..

Body 5543/44
Expressive, in the middle frame and size standing male with good harmony and building line and beautiful mänlichen character, he is well angulated and muscled and shows free space-creating movements with powerful actions. Slight weakness in the ear. Fred Falk break inbred imprints itself from the type.

I see Sven G's sire was used quite a bit. Makes me wonder what they saw in him..

I believe it was because of his bloodline, 3 times  Xito and Ex in the five generations.
And Xito was Sieger could be another reason, Gotz does look pretty good in the pic and great colour pigment.
He had a2 on hip score so this didn't stop his Stud service, and a few Parchimerland offspring I noticed..!

[Man Stopper]

The last decade or so that I have had an interest in the DDR type GSD.
I always had the impression that most of them were thick big boned strong heavy set dogs.
But with the recent posts on the stats on weight height and chest measurments, I was surprised to have read that Bernd Lierberg was thicker and heavier than the majority of the DDR dogs.
Is it fair to say that these days DDR type of dogs are not similar to those that were around in the 50's 60's ?

[ben]

Based on what I see online, I am getting the impression that the DDR dogs were (and still are) thicker, not necessarily heavier.
Let's look at some west and east:

Yoschy was 63 cm/38 kg
Troll was 38 with 64 whither
Lord was 65 cm/42 kg
Don was 65 cm/31 kg
Iran Tannenkrug  65 cm/38 kg
Condor was 64.5 cm/37 kg

So I think the DDR dog is not necessarily heavy, but thick boned. Because of the bones, theory says they should be heavier and I guess if we match a decent sized group of west to a numerically corresponding east group, the DDR would have the heavier dogs. I believe it's the more recent west lines that are lighter, because the sport requires speed, blah blah.. sport thinking.

[Man Stopper]

Lord being 65 and 42 in weight was more the range I had in mind of the average typical DDR size.
I see how the West lines would be more sleek and lighter for sport etc..
Dani is the Don you mentioned at 31kg Don haus Iris ?
As Don Rolandsteich would seem to be more like in the 38-40 kg range.
And also in regards to bone = weight, is one of the reasons I would of thought that DDR type was heavier.
I was also thinking that possibly the DDR dogs we know, were more your exhibition(show) type dogs .
Yet the early DDR type, those that actually patrolled on the east side of the wall were breed heavier and bigger stronger to suit the conditions to work..
Just a thought ..
What others think would be interesting to know and hear..

[Johnsk9]

Falko vom Ratsberg

DDR  160660
Hip: SV: HD a-normal (a1)

[ben]

Actually I am not too sure the early DDR dogs were all that heavy.. I think there were heavy dogs on both sides, with higher % in the east.. that's just my presumption. The greater difference would be in build and thickness or shape. I guess pigment also played a part in differentiating the two.

That was Don Rolandsteich I was mentioning.

Mate I think you get heavy dogs on both sides but let me ask this, how heavy do you want a GSD to be?

[ben]

This is from the '89 DDR sieger show. You can see they were not huge dogs or anything, just normal GSD's BUT (and that's one big BUT from me) - two things that were already happening by that year: they had A LOT of Olf Furstendam young dogs scoring well, sign that they were shooting for same structure as in the west (Olf had west show line paternal line) and two, "proper" DDR dogs who scored well in the past, now scored not as good. These are two indicators that the east Germans were "looking west".

Then after the Wall came down you had the Americans buying them good looking DDR dogs and before you know it the history of the true DDR dog was compromised. Very few (like John) had eyes to see what needed to be seen.

Iwan Rundeck at minute 3.

[ben]

...and here's a Fels Kemmlerblick grandson

[Man Stopper]

The greater difference would be in build and thickness or shape. I guess pigment also played a part in differentiating the two.

That was Don Rolandsteich I was mentioning.

Mate I think you get heavy dogs on both sides but let me ask this, how heavy do you want a GSD to be?

Would it be fair to say that the East were slightly longer in length and shorter generally, than the West ?
And I thought Don would of been heavier than that, the photo of Don taken with the owner looks to be more thicker and heavier in comparison to the other several younger pics of him.
As for weight I believe a Male 65 should be at least 40 kg with thickness and depth of chest.
It looks masculine and appealing, but if its got a chicken heart well size is all of a sudden shrunk down to a size of a rabbit.. 
There are breeders down here claiming that there Males are 67cm+ and at 55kg+
Coming from West and Czech working lines.
I believe they would be over weight, but still its some bloody weight there..

[Man Stopper]

Falko vom Ratsberg

DDR  160660
Hip: SV: HD a-normal (a1)

I like this dog he has very good thickness up front and great colour pigment, rich tan..

[ben]

Like I said I believe there were heavy sets and high withers on both sides; indeed one would have thought Don R was heavier, based on pictures, but neither Don or N Jim were heavy.
I think you can get the weight and the height from either side, again one just has to know well the bloodlines and how they can be combined.. hehe, it's always down to genes..

There are breeders down here claiming that there Males are 67cm+ and at 55kg+
Coming from West and Czech working lines.
I believe they would be over weight, but still its some bloody weight there..

Most times when I come across web sites from Au, the dogs seem to be over fed. I remember there was a big black and tan dog posted in the forum (may as well have been v Vorell dog..) and he looked pretty fat, or even very fat..
Why the desire for heaviness though.. I mean yes, I want a dog that has a certain mass so when fighting the aggressor the weight could make a difference upon impact and fight but then how heavy does it have to be..
Hun draws the energy out of my friend Andy during training sessions and part of that is to do with weight.

[hora]

Who is "in charge" with the DDR dogs? The SV? Or do they belong to a different club? Do the east-german breeders stick to their own blood lines or have they mixed them with west lines?