This could happen to you

[ShepherdsByDesignK9]

Here is a photo and x-rays of a pup at 8 months old. We will keep the name of the breeder out, but know this came from a well known breeder. I believe this was a cause of too many 4-4 and 5-5 line breedings in this litter. I won't post the pedigree due to trying to keep the breeder out of the mix. This dog has probably the worse set of hips and such a bad over bite which IMO the pup should have been held back just due to the over bite. And No this isn't one of my breedings, but just so you all to see what happens when breeding lines that are to close with each other. I do believe that with the linebreeding there were brother and sister in the mix which I feel was why this pup has the issues it does

Iata radiografia unui catel in varsta de 8 luni. Nu vom mentiona numele crescatorului, dar e vorba de un crescator foarte cunoscut. Motivul acestor solduri proaste cred ca a fost nrul de consangvinizari 4-4 si 5-5. Nu voi posta pedigreeul tot pt a nu mentiona crescatorul. Cred ca e vorba de cele mai rele solduri si rea muscatura (prognatism, daca nu ma insel) din cate am vazut pana acum, in opinia mea crescatorul trebuia sa nu vanda uin asemenea catel. Si nu, nu e vorba de unul din cuiburile scoase la mine, dar am vrut sa vedeti ce se intampla cand liniile sunt prea apropiate intre ele. E vb de frate si sora in consangvinizarile respective, ceea ce eu cred a fi motivul pt situatia data.

[zimbris]

My goodness....  and I'm pretty sure the breeder got some good money out of this, too 
Thank you for not giving names, I guess this will be one way of protecting the forum from a dirty "counter-attack" from such breeders who somehow still have the means to cause bad light, simply because of their well known names. Although at the same time, I hope people who get these dogs learn their lessons.
I've heard numerous stories of such cases, of Americans paying big money for crappy dogs and, to make it more "fun", I came to learn that the breeders who sell these dogs always have reasons to present and in most cases, it's the buyer's fault, not the breeder's    I mean, what could you possibly say to that?????? 

Aoleu.. si banuiesc ca si-a scos bani frumosi crescatorul respectiv...
Multumesc ca nu dai nume, este o cale de a proteja forumul de contra-atacuri murdare din partea unor astfel de crescatori care totusi su destula putere in sesnul asta, pt simplul motiv ca poarta numele care-l poarta. Dar in acelasi timp sper ca cei ce au cumparat caini de la ei si-au invatat lectiile.
Am auzit si eu mai multe situatii, cand Americani au dat bani frumosi pe caini de la crescatori foarte cunoscuti, caini cu probleme mari si, spre rasul meu am mai aflat ca respectivii crescatori au spus ca nu e vina lor, ci a clientilor, pt ca nu au stiut sa creasca cainii    Ce sa mai spui la asta???

[ShepherdsByDesignK9]

If I was to show you this pedigree you will then see exactly what I'm talking about when I say there was heavy line breeding from a pedigree that was to similar on the top as it was on the bottom of the pedigree. This makes it genetically like breeding brother to sister and this is where I think some of these problems came from. there were lots of 5/5,5 and 4/4,5 breeding in this breeding As you can see the pup had its lower K-9s removed. We were told by his owner that this boy has a 1 inch over bite

The person that owns this dog just got her refund for the pup plus the shipping cost also. Only having to fight for 7 months for it

[zimbris]

The person that owns this dog just got her refund for the pup plus the shipping cost also. Only having to fight for 7 months for it

Persoana care a cumparat catelul si-a primit inapoi banii, dar a luptat 7 luni pt asta.

[Santos]

nu consangvinizarea a facut sa apara cainele cu prognatism si displazie ci calitatea reproducatorilor In consangvinizari pot aparea produsi cu defecte dar si produsi foarte buni Mai repede elimini un defect prin consangvinizare decat daca nu ai face Daca vrei sa elimini un defect la o linie trebuie sa faci consangvinizare si sa elimini de la reproductie toate exemplarele care au defectul respectiv Ce poate aparea in urma consangvinizarii repetate este scaderea vitalitatii si tulburari de reproductie  ,dar asta se intampla daca se fac consangvinizari foarte stranse si repetate

It wasn't the linebreeding itself that led to these problems but the quality of the dogs used. Out of linebreeding you get both bad dogs and good dogs. You eliminate problems quicker through linebreeding that as opposed to otherwise. What you get after a repetitive linebreeding is lack of vitality and reproductive issues, but that applies to too tight or repetitive linebreeding.

[zimbris]

va fi foarte interesant sa dam de cap unor astfel de situatii si bine-nteles practica va avea cel mai greu cuvant, nu teoria, pt ca genetica sare dintr-o parte in alta cand nu te-astepti..

[zimbris]

Chuck,
are you saying it was that type of linebreeding that caused the problems, or linebreeding by default? I think what Santos said is not exactly connected to what you said. Could you please provide some more light over this, that would help.

Chuck, tu spui ca tipul de consangvinizare folosit in cazul de mai sus a generat probleme sau consangvinizarea in general? Ceea ce a spus Santos imi lasa impresia ca nu prea se leaga cu ce ai spus tu. Vrei te rog sa clarifici, ar ajuta.

[Santos]

daca facem consangvinizari, defectele ascunse vor aparea mai repede Nu consangvinizarea genereaza defectul  Defectul exista in bagajul genetic dar este ascuns Prin eliminarea produsilor cu defecte se curata linia de gunoaiele  genetice

[zimbris]

da, dar cred ca Chuck incearca sa spuna altceva, de-aia i-am cerut sa clarifice

[Santos]

cainele  care la postat  era un gunoi genetic 

[zimbris]

cainele  care la postat  era un gunoi genetic 

...pe care un crescator "greu", pe care il stii si tu, l-a vandut pe bani frumosi

[Bogdan]

Probleme pot sa apara si in linii sanatoase, daramite in linii cu probleme.
Dan, acum cateva zile te legai de displaziile SV, poate acum intelegi de ce baza lor de date e asa de importanta atunci cand alegi un reproducator sau altul.

Pentru mine este foarte important sa stiu cum reproduce un anume caine (procentul de displazici) si mai ales sa apara aceste date undeva. Deocamdata baza de date SV este cea mai completa.

Acum cateva luni am fost tentat sa iau un mascul matur dintr-un cuib cu 7 pui, toti HD/ED a1. Noroc cu nevasta, ca ma mai tempereaza.

[zimbris]

Probleme pot sa apara si in linii sanatoase, daramite in linii cu probleme.
Dan, acum cateva zile te legai de displaziile SV, poate acum intelegi de ce baza lor de date e asa de importanta atunci cand alegi un reproducator sau altul.

Boss, nu amesteca merele cu perele! Cainii pe care i-am mentionat in discutia amintita de tine, daca le studiezi progeniturile vei vedea ca au contribuit la daramarea rasei si nu e vorba doar de sanatate / displazie, aici. In plus, de SV o sa ma tot iau prin intermediul forumurilor pana cand vor schimba ceva, ceea ce probabil nu se va intampla ever.. deci, citeste si tu printre randuri..

Pentru mine este foarte important sa stiu cum reproduce un anume caine (procentul de displazici) si mai ales sa apara aceste date undeva. Deocamdata baza de date SV este cea mai completa.

Acum cateva luni am fost tentat sa iau un mascul matur dintr-un cuib cu 7 pui, toti HD/ED a1. Noroc cu nevasta, ca ma mai tempereaza.

Pt tine conteaza ce nu conteaza pt multi in forumul asta       Tinand cont de afirmatia ta de mai sus referitor la ce e important pt tine.. ti-as pune o intrebare dar vad cum i-ai raspuns lui Nicu, asa ca prefer sa nu o mai pun, desi si aia ar fi retorica    Ahh.. din nou, trebuie sa citesti printre randuri 

PS - daca ai inclinatii artistice, n-ai vrea sa compui un cantecel pt SV..? 

[ShepherdsByDesignK9]

Here is the pedigree to this dog. I don't think it is the breeders fault for this. The only thing I was a bit upset with them was that they sent this pup saying they didn't know about the over bite. These are probably the worst hip x-rays I have seen in many years. Breeder refunded the client their money including shipping and they are going to do hip replacement for the dog now 8 months old once he is done growing. This breeding if you look farther back in the pedigree you will see that both top and bottom of this pedigree has too many of the same dogs which genetially makes like you are breeding brother to sister.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=714060

[Man Stopper]

Chuck i see that its a 2 - 3 linebreeding on Furo Kamos, and he himself (Furo) is an outcross..
I have noticed that close linebreeding on a particular dog, happens to be himself an outcross;if you know what i mean...
I wll look up some dogs and mention some, if i'm correct a few Czech dogs come to mind..