Real training vs sport training / Sport vs Real

[RogerW]

LOL, you're welcome Bobo, I'm a novice with 16 years of being around it and just now learning something. lol

Bob tried to post on this thread, but hasn't been approved.  Either that or he is having trouble with his computer in Afghanistan.

[Santos]

eu caut sa fac sa prinda cainele ura pe atentator apoi il invat sa muste Acesta este cel mai important lucru sa faci cainele sa urasca atentatorul Am sa filmez cum incep eu dresajul de paza sa va puteti da seama

[kangdanlin]

I did not know you could downsize video so that it made it easier to upload until Dani told me, so what we recorded here was very, very short and about 1/3 of the time we spent on this one bite.   What you see at the end of the clip is me pulling up on Drago's collar.  This was not to make him let go, it was to make him think he was about to lose his grip or at least to make him think he needed to fight harder; what you can't see is that after the clip cuts off is I released Drago who bit HARDER while Bob was flopping on the ground and fighting with him a bit, but slowly "dying" the longer it went on.  I picked up on his collar a few more times and released it for harder and harder bites as Bob fought less and less.  In the end, Drago "killed" his opponent and was put up while Bob was still on the ground.   This is just a ridiculously short example and Bob can explain it much better.

nu stiam ca pot sa micsorez un clip asa incat sa fie mai usor de pus pe youtube, pana ce dani nu mi-a spus
ceea ce am inregistrat aici este foarte foarte scurt, si reprezinta cam 1/3 din sedinta pentru aceasta muscatura.ceea ce vedeti la final este cum trag de zgarda lui Drago.scopul nu era de a-l face sa dea drumu, ci pentru a-l face sa creada ca mai are putin si va scapa muscatura sau sa-l fac sa creada ca trebuie sa lupte mai mult;ceea ce nu se vede pe clip este faptul ca dupa ce clipul se termina eu il eliberez pe Drago, care a muscat mai TARE in timp ce Bob se zbatea la pamant luptand putin cu cainele, in timp ce "murea" treptat.L-am prins de zgarda de cateva ori si apoi l-am eliberat ca sa poata musca tot mai bine , iar Bob punea din ce in ce mai putina rezistenta.La final Drago si-a "omorat" openentul si a fost luat in timp ce Bob era inca la pamant.Acesta este un exemplu ridicol de scurt dar Bob va explica mult mai bine.

[bobo70]

........
Bob tried to post on this thread, but hasn't been approved.  Either that or he is having trouble with his computer in Afghanistan.

 

We are waiting with interest from a profesionist's opinions, like Bob. We hope he can post from his computer.

[kangdanlin]

eu caut sa fac sa prinda cainele ura pe atentator apoi il invat sa muste Acesta este cel mai important lucru sa faci cainele sa urasca atentatorul Am sa filmez cum incep eu dresajul de paza sa va puteti da seama

i try to make the dog HATE the helper and then i teach him how to bite.This is the most important thing to make the dog hate the helper.
i will film how i start the protection training so you can understand better what i want to say

[bobo70]

........ Am sa filmez cum incep eu dresajul de paza sa va puteti da seama

  Asteptam cu nerabdare clipurile.....

[RogerW]

I understand, Santos.  And look forward to seeing your videos. 

i try to make the dog HATE the helper and then i teach him how to bite.This is the most important thing to make the dog hate the helper.
i will film how i start the protection training so you can understand better what i want to say

[kangdanlin]

I understand, Santos.  And look forward to seeing your videos.

inteleg Santos, si astept sa vad clipurile

[zimbris]

Kangdanlin - multumesc mult pt traduceri!!!!!!! cand am vazut cate pagini s-au facut doar azi ma gandeam.. aoleu.. dar abia acum am vazut ca deja ai tradus tu - multumesc!!!

Kangdanlin - thank you so much for interpreting for the guys!! When i first noticed the number of posts to translate, i thought.. oh my goodness... but eventually i realized you already translated them - thank you!!

[kangdanlin]

  pentru nimic...e foarte interesant subiectul ..daca o sa mai fie cazul o sa mai traduc

for nothing...very interesting subject..i will translate more if there is the case

[zimbris]

for the record - I like Drago's work!

[kangdanlin]

i am really glad that Bob's strong point is to recuperate sport dogs for the reality, this means he can give some very competent advice also regarding the "helper workout" or the "helper behaviour" too..what are the biggest mistakes he usualy has to correct...i think this is maybe the biggest subject, as the helper can make or brake your dog!

regarding to bite development, i've seen in a site, a police helper describing his way of doing things...he started the dog in prey (chasing and the first bite of the helper), and then he would work the dog only in defense...muzzle...when the dog worked good in defense he would start the fighting drive development,by working the dog in prey again(atac the running decoy from behind) ..i would like to know what you think about this way

ma bucur sa aud ca punctul forte al lui Bob este acela de a recupera cainele de sport pentru realitate, asta inseamna ca poate sa vina de asemeni si cu niste sfaturi foarte competente referitor la ceea ce ar trebui sa faca "Ajutorul"..care sunt cele mai frecvente lucruri pe care le corecteaza de obicei...cred ca asta este poate cel mai important subiect , avand in vedere ca "ajutorul" poate sa-ti faca sau sa strice cainele!

referitor la etapele formarii muscaturii, am citit pe un site descrierea unui politist asupra metodei folosite de el..si anume incepea cainele "in prada"(vanarea si prima prindere a Ajutorului), iar apoi lucra cainele numai "in aparare" ..lucrul cu botnita...iar dupa ce era multumit de felul cum lucreaza "in aparare" trecea la dezvoltarea instinctul de lupta, si pentru asta revenea la lucrul "in prada" , mai exact prinderea din spate a infractorului care alearga
as vrea sa stiu ce parere aveti despre metoda asta

[Man Stopper]

We're getting here somewhere guys, clear training methods, besides those applied for sport.
Thanks very much Roger and have always believed in doing straight up 'suit/hidden sleeve'. And just needed to hear some other; who follows this method, and not wasting there time on sleeve. Have seen training for 20+ years and its always been sleeve circling dogs, where the majority were never capable of long distance 'suit' work.. Its a hassle reversing and switching the type of work, which i dont see why most trainers would continue to do so.. Simple effective training and genetics ofcourse; gives results..!
As Roger said he holds back the collar lifting, not to release but tease or work with the dog to generate more fire  

[kangdanlin]

We're getting here somewhere guys, clear training methods, besides those applied for sport.
Thanks very much Roger and have always believed in doing straight up 'suit/hidden sleeve'. And just needed to hear some other; who follows this method, and not wasting there time on sleeve. Have seen training for 20+ years and its always been sleeve circling dogs, where the majority were never capable of long distance 'suit' work.. Its a hassle reversing and switching the type of work, which i dont see why most trainers would continue to do so.. Simple effective training and genetics ofcourse; gives results..!
As Roger said he holds back the collar lifting, not to release but tease or work with the dog to generate more fire  

hai ca ajungem undeva, metode clare de antrenament,pe langa cele aplicate pentru sport.
Multumesc Roger foarte mult, am crezut din totdeauna in folosirea directa a costumului/manecii ascunse.Doar ca aveam nevoie sa mai aud si altele;cine foloseste metoda asta de dresaj fara a mai irosi timpul cu maneca.Am vazut dresaj timp de 20 de ani, si a fost tot timpul cu caini care merg in cerc cu mansonul in gura, timp in care majoritatea nu erau capabili de "lucru pe costum" pe termen lung...este o bataie de cap sa tot schimbi si sa te intorci de la un mod de lucru la altul, si nu inteleg de ce majoritatea dresorilor continua sa faca asa.Metode simple si efective plus genetica dau rezultate bune...!
Cum spunea si Roger ca trage cainele de zgarda nu pentru a elabera ci pentru a-l stimula sau lucra cainele generand mai multe "scantei"

[zimbris]

guys this is indeed very good talk - keep going with it, I love it!! I love watching real work vs sport work - this is good!