Civil training / Dresaj de protectie

[Man Stopper]

What are your views when a young dog should begin civil type training, and would too much rag work/ obedience and correction spoil his toughness dominance ??

[zimbris]

What are your views when a young dog should begin civil type training, and would too much rag work/ obedience and correction spoil his toughness dominance ??

Reg intreaba:
Care sunt perspectivele voastre, cand ar trebui un caine tanar sa inceapa antrenamentul de protectie, si, credeti ca prea mult joc cu carpa, disciplina si corectii aplicate, ii vor diminua din spiritul dominant si duritate?

[zimbris]

Well in my view, I would not do any civil work until the age on 1 year at least. That's for sure! Until then, the dog is simply not mature enough. If you start civil work too early in life with the pup, he may not take seriously enough the task ahead and by the time he's supposed to be doing that, civil work would rather be just routine to the dog.
Obedience and correction... i guess one must be careful in how much of the two is applied on the dog through training, according to the desired target.
You can probably spoil the toughness in the dog, to some degree, again - if you start things too early in life. But I may be wrong, that's just what I think.. But then again, it also depends on how much rag work / obedience etc.. gets done regularly. An experienced trainer would not turn the dog into a robot (the dog undergoes very frequent training and loses the 'fun' part of it).
I'm curious to hear what others, with more training experience would have to say about this though... From my point of view, toughness and dominance are genetic and one cannot alter that just like that. That is also why I have second thoughts on the neurological stimulation etc...

[bobo70]

Well in my view, I would not do any civil work until the age on 1 year at least. That's for sure! Until then, the dog is simply not mature enough. If you start civil work too early in life with the pup, he may not take seriously enough the task ahead and by the time he's supposed to be doing that, civil work would rather be just routine to the dog.
Obedience and correction... i guess one must be careful in how much of the two is applied on the dog through training, according to the desired target.
You can probably spoil the toughness in the dog, to some degree, again - if you start things too early in life. But I may be wrong, that's just what I think.. But then again, it also depends on how much rag work / obedience etc.. gets done regularly. An experienced trainer would not turn the dog into a robot (the dog undergoes very frequent training and loses the 'fun' part of it).
I'm curious to hear what others, with more training experience would have to say about this though... From my point of view, toughness and dominance are genetic and one cannot alter that just like that. That is also why I have second thoughts on the neurological stimulation etc...

For "Man Stopper"
First excuse me for my English ...
I am not an experienced dog breeder. From what I read, Neurological Stimulation of puppies, the U.S. military practice with good results. I read that are not conceive The training canine trainers without this neurogical stimultion.
Ideas about training puppies I would like to hear. If you experience more, please tell me your views.
When you do not understand something to ask on a Dani me translate.

[zimbris]

Bobo, e bine asa, se intelege ce spui. Baga mare!

Just saying Bobo's english is good enough to carry a conversation    he's doing an awesome job!

[Man Stopper]

I think that chasing brooms and tennis balls are plenty for stimulation and 5 second rag biting repeated 3 times with letting the young pup WIN is most important at early stages, has worked for me personally with my last 2 dogs. This i would do every second day at the beginning and less and less as he reaches 6 months.. Then i focus on building his suspicious levels, as long as he has this naturally where i can praise him on strangers and building on his level of suspicion which eventually becomes sharpeness.. So timing the praising when suspicion is about to come on is crucial, this repeated he becomes much better than a sleeve happy dog and a better sub concious imprint i feel..

[zimbris]

Lately I have been tempted to think that not praising him when he shows that natural suspicion towards strangers, but just let things 'happen' in a more or less 'natural' way. Reemember what you were saying about the 'touch of wilderness' as far as the fasting goes. Well I am just enclined to think that aproach may also have results in the 'suspicion' area of the dog's mind. Never done that so far actually, but it's just something I'm thinkg aof these days. Almost as if to say, that sharpness comes out of the dog regardless of the handler's praise. And then, add to that some praise and it probably pushes things somewhat higher. Could be childful thinking.. but it's what I'm thinking...    
yes, I too agree the dog should 'win' in all circumstances and let him think he is "the best".

[kangdanlin]

hello,
am postat ceva mai devreme un mesaj, dar se pare ca nu s-a salvat, asa ca imi incerc din nou norocul
care sunt cele mai mari greseli, pe care le poti comite atunci cand detii un caine ce prezinta inclinatii puternice spre paza si aparare?...cata libertate ar trebui sa aiba, si cand anume tragi linia si spui destul?

What are the biggest mistakes one can make, when owning a dog that shows good temperament for personal protection?...how much freedom should the dog have, and when you decide that is enough?

[zimbris]

hello,
am postat ceva mai devreme un mesaj, dar se pare ca nu s-a salvat, asa ca imi incerc din nou norocul
care sunt cele mai mari greseli, pe care le poti comite atunci cand detii un caine ce prezinta inclinatii puternice spre paza si aparare?...cata libertate ar trebui sa aiba, si cand anume tragi linia si spui destul?

What are the biggest mistakes one can make, when owning a dog that shows good temperament for personal protection?...how much freedom should the dog have, and when you decide that is enough?

Mai intai de toate bun venit in forum!! ..si multumesc ca ai pus intrebarea si in engleza, sa se poata 'conecta' si cei din afara tarii.

Personal cred ca cea mai mare greseala este sa nu te impui ca fiind 'cainele alpha' inca de cand e tanar cainele. Apoi libertate prost gandita cred ca este sa nu aplici corectie cand el are ORICE fel de iesire cu txtura de hiper-agresivitate. Un astfel de caine prezinta un potential imens si un astfel de potential e musai sa intre pe maini bune. Si bine-nteles mai cred ca nu este necesar (daca nu chiar periculos) sa se insiste pe antrenamente de duritate cu cun caine deja dur. Cam asta cred eu.

[kangdanlin]

hello,
am postat ceva mai devreme un mesaj, dar se pare ca nu s-a salvat, asa ca imi incerc din nou norocul
care sunt cele mai mari greseli, pe care le poti comite atunci cand detii un caine ce prezinta inclinatii puternice spre paza si aparare?...cata libertate ar trebui sa aiba, si cand anume tragi linia si spui destul?

What are the biggest mistakes one can make, when owning a dog that shows good temperament for personal protection?...how much freedom should the dog have, and when you decide that is enough?

Mai intai de toate bun venit in forum!! ..si multumesc ca ai pus intrebarea si in engleza, sa se poata 'conecta' si cei din afara tarii.

Personal cred ca cea mai mare greseala este sa nu te impui ca fiind 'cainele alpha' inca de cand e tanar cainele. Apoi libertate prost gandita cred ca este sa nu aplici corectie cand el are ORICE fel de iesire cu txtura de hiper-agresivitate. Un astfel de caine prezinta un potential imens si un astfel de potential e musai sa intre pe maini bune. Si bine-nteles mai cred ca nu este necesar (daca nu chiar periculos) sa se insiste pe antrenamente de duritate cu cun caine deja dur. Cam asta cred eu.

cainele de care vorbesc eu , este deja adult...nu este linie de munca, si nu are nici un fel de dresaj facut....initial am vrut sa-l dau , dar in final am decis ca este mai bine sa-l pastrez pentru mine
spre exemplu...cand suntem singuri este cel mai pupacios caine pe care o sa-l vezi vreodata....dar daca mai vine o persoana si lui i se pare ca se uita prea lung la el,...sau daca cineva ma atinge ,  zici ca-i posedat
pe strada merge oarecum bine la pas, dar cand vede alti caini se trage spre ei, de pisici nu mai zic
am inceput sa-l invat lucrurile de baza...dar mai e mult pana departe... preocuparea mea este sa nu fac vreo greseala in ce priveste temperamentul lui
sper sa-l filmez zilele astea, si sa postez un clip cu el, ca sa vedeti despre cine vorbesc

the dog i am talking about is already adult...it's not working line, and has no training what so ever....at first i wanted to give it away, but in the end i decided to keep it for miself
for example, when we are alone, he is the most loving dog you ever saw, but if there is some other pearson, that looks at him too much, or if somewone touches me...he acts like posesed
in the streets he kinda walks ok on "HEEL", but when he sees other dogs then starts to pull the leash...i dont mention the cats
i started basic training with him, but my main concern is for the future, not to ruin it's temper
i hope to post some movie clip soon, so you can see the dog for yourself

[zimbris]

hmmm.... la prima 'citire' as spune ca nu a fost /este  socializat corect, judecand dupa detaliile pe care atat de clar le-ai descris. Astept clipul     si am sa-l rog si pe 'Dux' sa-si dea cu parerea.

[bobo70]

cainele de care vorbesc eu , este deja adult...nu este linie de munca, si nu are nici un fel de dresaj facut....initial am vrut sa-l dau , dar in final am decis ca este mai bine sa-l pastrez pentru mine
spre exemplu...cand suntem singuri este cel mai pupacios caine pe care o sa-l vezi vreodata....dar daca mai vine o persoana si lui i se pare ca se uita prea lung la el,...sau daca cineva ma atinge ,  zici ca-i posedat
pe strada merge oarecum bine la pas, dar cand vede alti caini se trage spre ei, de pisici nu mai zic
am inceput sa-l invat lucrurile de baza...dar mai e mult pana departe... preocuparea mea este sa nu fac vreo greseala in ce priveste temperamentul lui
sper sa-l filmez zilele astea, si sa postez un clip cu el, ca sa vedeti despre cine vorbesc

Salut.
Ce inseamna adult? Cati ani are cainele?
Sa ne pui poze cu el.

[zimbris]

Asa Bobo, asta e si domeniul tau, chiar vreau sa-ti aflu parerea dupa ce vedem clipul sau dupa ce aflam mai multe detalii. Eu tind sa cred ca a fost alintat destul dar insuficient socializat.

[kangdanlin]

adult adica un an , 2...nu stiu sigur
l-am gasit pe strada acum cateva saptamani...i-am cautat stapanul pe la noi prin oras, pet shopuri, cabinete veterinare dar nu l-am gasit...era slab ca vai de capul lui...si pentru ca nu am gasit pe cineva in care sa am incredere ca va avea grija de el, am decis sa-l pastrez, macar pana pune carne pe el, sau pana gasesc o astfel de persoana
azi deja nu mai am timp sa-l filmez....sper ca maine sa reusesc

[Man Stopper]

With correct body language and tone of voice i say don't stop the fire burning.. But on the other hand if the signs are of fear and nerves well we can minimize it i guess if corrected early on in life but to get rid of this trait entireley just might be a hard one.. One has to be pretty good at evaluating the individual dog in different scenarios, in order how much correction should be given..